Line Rise NielsenOne thing that really influenced us was that the political agenda shifted in Lejre municipality, actually ending up in Lejre leaving FoodSHIFT. This highlighted the importance of having flexible multi-functional lab members to take on extra lab host roles left by the municipality. One example being to lead the citizen engagement initiatives for the lab. Another challenge, I think, is that we have a situation in Denmark, where we have a very strong farming lobby. 65% of Denmark’s area is farming. And 85% of that is animal production. This results in a very high focus on technical solutions on lowering CO2 emissions in animal production. Even though the more logical way would be to reduce animal production, because we know that it is the key to lowering CO2 emissions. I think the biggest barrier, or the biggest constraint, is that it is very hard to shift the agenda to talk about other sustainability issues than CO2 emissions. And every time I'm talking with a chef, just the two of us, then he says "I don't understand this CO2 emission thing. I don't know how to act in my kitchen. I don't know what's the right thing to do.". What we could see when we did the organic conversion was that because it was black and white, it was very easy to measure. It was very easy to be motivated by. We have this kitchen organic certification, which is a bronze, silver and gold medal. And of course, it's self-explanatory. You want to have the golden medal because then you're doing good. But what do you do with CO2 emissions? You have to lower a percentage of something that you can't see. And I really want to translate all of that discussion into saying: you have to eat less meat. And you can do it while you are converting into organic because then you have the advantages of these silver, golden medals. But it's really difficult to be allowed to talk about it in such a simple manner.And again, people don't comprehend the scale of it. And they can't see the soil quality when they are shopping. So their attention gets shifted into food waste, or plastic or transportation kilometers, or something that they can see and understand. So this connection with the rural area, really understanding what difference it makes for soil quality, with regenerative and biodynamic and organic farming. That discussion is lost in the cities. It's really, really hard to re-establish. And again, that is why I try to focus on doing this shift with chefs. Because they can take the responsibility on behalf of a lot of people and explain the story by preparing meaningful meals for a lot of people.